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Mayo Ayilaran is the CEO of Musical Copyright Society of Nigeria, MCSN. An expert in the business of copyright, Mayo takes us through the success story of the MCSN, as it gradually finds its roots in more states across the federation. Enjoy this educative and enlightening interview he had with ORJI ONYEKWERE
How far have you gone with your efforts to open more branches of MCSN in other states?
We thank God. The progress is a gradual process because to cover the whole federation will require a lot of capital in form of finance, equipment and human resources and only a few organizations can boast of this. Like the saying goes, ‘a journey of 1000 miles starts with a step,’ we have already taken that step and effectively we will cover the whole federation.
What’s the level of compliance by music consumers concerning the copyright act?
Even before the new copyright act, it’s still the same attitude; people not wanting to part with money. Not paying. Ordinarily, if you lend money to someone, when it’s time to pay back there’s always issue; not to talk of when somebody say you should pay for intangible goods or services they enjoy in their businesses. The first is to try the much we can to educate them. Make them see reasons and to persuade and make them know that the art work and musical work they use does not come free. They’re required to pay. Even morality requires them to compensate the people whose work they’re using which will enhance their businesses.
It’s been difficult but we are gradually catching up because we do not want to appear to be another kind of tax collectors, neither do we want to begin to use the security agencies as a means of enforcing copyright. As a friendly subject they can relate with and they can love, not from the position of fear or retribution but love. It’s gradually catching on but in many cases where we have recalcitrant people who will tell us to go court, they will keep us in court for the number of years that case lasts; we do take them to court.
However in the course of trial, they reduce their level of resistance and begin to approach us for settlement out of court. The compliance level will continue to increase particularly with the posture of the Nigerian Copyright Commission, which is in charge of copyright matters in the county.
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The commission is coming out forceful to tell anybody that cares to listen that if you’re using music publicly or in your business, you are expected to get the license and pay the necessary money. This approach has the force of law behind it because the people can be charged for criminal action vis a vis civil action. Whoever is resisting compliance is risking facing double trial either criminal or civil trial.
Is there any other thing a music consumer can do to avoid litigation or having issues with MCSN?
Yes. What the consumer can do is to come for negotiation rather than wait for us to force them. Someone can come willingly and say ‘I am using this music but I think I need a license to do this, please, educate me, how much do I pay? Even in a case where you feel that what is being charged is high, you have the freedom to say because of the volume of this business, look at it this way or that way, and come down so that we will agree at a starting point.
But when someone says never, they will never pay this; ‘I own my music and all that, that’s where the problem comes in. Interestingly some of the people who are so difficult in this area are the so called big companies and big users of these songs. Until we take them through the rigors of the process of judicial trial that’s when they will realize that this is not an easy case as they thought
There is the issue of trust, some believe they’re being cheated and their questions usually is, how did you arrive at this figure, why and what. In this case, how do you guarantee trust as a collecting society?
These people feel justified in having doubt or asking that kind of question because when somebody is in charge of collecting money for you, you are not there when it’s negotiated and you don’t know how much is being collected. Or say accurately that from where the money is collected that your music was used there. The feeling of entitlement is there but with the help of technology, we have been able to demonstrate to them that this business is like when you’re sitting in front of a mirror, you will appear the way you are; the mirror cannot alter your appearance.
The way your music is consumed outside is what you will get because this is technology and it’s helping everyday to ensure that accurate logging is done. When the logs come in, we are able to analyze and know how much is due to which music. For example, all broadcast stations are obligated under the law to keep logs of all their broadcast to the seconds. So, it’s these logs that are deployed to share the amount they pay to the various works that they’ve played. For instance, a radio station plays 100 piece of music for a period of the year that we licensed them for and they give us the accurate log. If these 100 pieces of music belong to only one person, it’s that person that will earn but if it belongs to several people the money will be shared.
Songs played for 2seconds will get 2seconds value of the money. Same with music that was played for one hour. It will get one hour value. That’s how it’s done because most of these things require education and information. We are doing our best to educate them and I am not only talking of MCSN, but generally worldwide. If your members know what’s happening on the field they will trust you, but they know that the compliance level is still very low and challenging. Therefore the choice is there that if it’s MCSN they trust the guys who are there
Most musicians like to stream their music online which gives them direct income and also use AI. How has this affected income generation for MCSN and membership too?
Music streaming will not necessarily affect the membership in the sense that the online streaming platforms are under obligations to take license. What the online streaming platforms should be doing is like when the record companies were distributing physical records. So, they have displaced physical distribution but are doing digital distribution through online and that doesn’t take away the payment of mechanical right royalties. They will still pay us for the mechanical rights for the music they stream for members. They are depending on the download and the listening.
They will still pay money both for the performing rights and mechanical rights but the challenge we have presently is that many of these popular streaming platforms would be claiming that they’re not operating from Nigeria, that they’re operating from the US or the UK but that will not be problem for us. It’s being able to face and surmount the challenge holding them down to what they’re doing in this country. For example Spotify, people do not just go to Spotify free of charge, they pay subscription for it. They take advert from Nigeria and subscription for all these things and they are done in naira, it’s just a portion of it.
Above all, without data you and I cannot access this, so the telecommunications companies that provide the highway into this are among those owing the artiste and they are among those we are facing to collect the royalties. The artist has an unlimited channel to increase their incomes rather than seeing us competing with them or disturbing their membership. In the long run, they will still see that belonging to MCSN pays them more and that doesn’t stop there artistic royalties and the performance royalties due to them which they collect directly.
One important thing we should understand is that the musical works we are talking about are not written or composed by the artiste that perform them. It’s the composers, authors and publishers that we represent and these online platforms may not know these people or pay them. So, it’s not a problem because the results will draw the membership.
So the people you collect the royalties for are music composers, song writers and not the singers?
Not necessarily singers and of course we have the right to sound recording, and the right of the sound recording belongs to both the singer (performer) and the label owner. The right in reproducing the sound recording, we collect royalties for that which we share between the performer and the label owner. They’re in about two levels just to start with. One level is for the musical works itself, the composers, author and publisher and the second level is for the sound recording, the performing artistes as well as the label owners or recording companies.
Can you give us a little break down of the new act?
The new act is very voluminous but the one that concerns us and the musical industry is that we have a wider control to administer and manage the copyright and musical works. That makes it essential for any musician, composer, author who wants to benefit from that law to belong to MCSN for example in Nigeria, or join any other society in foreign countries because whether you belong here or there, your right is protected well in Nigeria.
It’s the responsibility of the FGN to protect intellectual property based on international conventions and bilateral treaties that the Federal Republic of Nigeria has entered into. Treaties and convention like Japan convention, the universal copyright convention, the Rome convention for performers, broadcasters, producers of records. Nigeria is a signatory to all these conventions and the article provides that Nigeria has the obligation to ensure that all works that are available and exploited within the territory are protected just like any work produced by a Nigerian.
The new copyright act has made that possible by vesting in CMO’s like MCSN, the power to collect. The divide and rule that has been the bane of the copyright system over the years has been stopped because what they do in the past is they will say, ‘this person is not a member of that organization therefore don’t pay his money’. As it’s, except you write and say I am opting out of the collecting administration that means worldwide you are saying your work is in the public space anybody can use it and when you want you can go and collect on your own but how can you do that on your own.
Secondly the law has strengthened the criminal liability of infringement of copyright. Section 44 of the copyright act is now clear that there are some criminal liabilities if you don’t have a license. There’s also the internet online protection because apart from the compensation that you can enjoy if your right is exploited online without your license, you can also apply for a takedown of that material from that platform and once that order is given, it’s compulsory that that platform takes down the work.
If for example MCSN confronts YouTube or Spotify for the works that are passing through or being streamed that all these works infringes our rights, then it means technically that we are shutting them down. So these are the effects of the new copyright act. It also gives more leverage to the Nigerian Copyright Commission to assist the CMO in enforcing copyright. So with the copyright inspectors which have the same power like the police they can go to any premises where the copyright is being infringed, arrest whoever is there, charge them to court and bring them to justice in compliance with the law.
Is it legal for a musician to belong to two collecting societies in the same country or one in his country and another outside the country?
Yes. It depends on what right you have because when you look at the law you can divide your rights. You can say this organization administer my performing rights while this organization should administer my mechanical right. Or you can say for these set of works, I want to give it to A, while these set of works is for B, but such will naturally end in conflict and confusion because when two organizations or more approaches you as a music user wanting to collect for the same musician, the same territory , you will definitely protest. Logically it’s not encouraged because the international best practices even sees to that.
That’s why in western nations many of them operate one single society. For example, the United Kingdom the Performing Rights Society, PRS, is the only one operating within the music industry. Every other organization that has been existing has subsumed their collecting power under the PRS because PPL and VPL, are all collaborating with PRS to collect royalties.
In France, we have virtually only SACEM and in Germany, you have GEMA. It’s only in the United States because of the size and the kind of federalism they’re practicing there where the state is as powerful as the federal government in most areas that they have more than one collecting society. They have three big major societies and interestingly they’re collaborating and are working together. In most African countries, they have only one that is operational, however some of these organizations emerged voluntarily and have been developing very well. In the past when they were forced most of them collapsed.
What are you doing to bring to the consciousness of the old musicians that are no longer active that they can still benefit from their sweat through their royalties?
I can tell you that some of these old timers are already members of MCSN even before they got old like Dan Satch of Oriental Brothers was in MCSN, including other veterans who belong to MCSN and are getting their royalties,
Some of them are bands, so they can join individually?
In most cases, it’s the band leader who comes as the composers, author and publisher but now with the new act bringing up the rights of the performers, we are encouraging those who have recorded with any band before to come and get registered. It’s only when you get registered with proof of having contributed to the recording of a particular music then you can start to expect money from us.
So all these boils down to documentation which is because even when a member is dead, the family will still meet if there is no will or if he has a will that he has appointed someone to inherit his copyright interest that person will be admitted as a successor member. Where that doesn’t exist, we will advise the family to hold a family meeting and pick one of them that will be a successor member in the name of the late person. The lawyer will advise them and know how to make it available to us.
Then we will check our records, if there’s outstanding in favor of the representative of the late person, we will pay the money because under the law, the music of the late musician will continue to enjoy copyright for 70 years after his exist. Even for the lifetime of the successive member, the music will still be earning money. For example, somebody like Fela, for the next 50-60 years, his music will continue to earn money for his children and estate.
QUOTE:
Someone can come willingly and say ‘I am using this music but I think I need a license to do this, please, educate me, how much do I pay?
English (US) ·